Investigating the Supernatural

Welcome to Asked and Answered, the podcast series that answers all of your mission-related questions. With me in the studio today are Ron and Charis Pearce. Welcome back, guys!

Ron, Charis — Hi.

Joy — Ok, so my question today is: In this world full of skeptics, and growing skeptics at that, would you say with confidence that there are still supernatural occurrences happening around the world in the spiritual hotspots?

Ron — Yes.

Charis — Definitely.

Joy — Charis sounded more confident than you, Ron. [laughter]

Ron — Ok, let’s qualify this and put boundaries around it, alright? I would say that every country, every situation, every people group, and everyone is different. That means some are overwhelmed with the supernatural, some are mildly there, and some are growing in it. When you walk into a country, you have to shift gears and get into where that country is at. In some areas, the revivals, or outpourings of the Holy Spirit, have been going on for a while, so they’ve sort of gotten used to it. Therefore, there are a large number of pastors praying for the sick, and it’s become a normal thing. In other places, like Albania and Kosovo, yes, they pray; it’s part of their life, part of the church, but it’s a relatively new hotspot. In the prisons of El Salvador, it’s a brand-new thing. A couple of the reports I’ve received from there, and I’ll be back in a couple of weeks, indicate that people are believing God for the miraculous within the prisons. That will take on a different form than anywhere else. It’s all different, Joy.

Joy — When I think about India, I remember you wrote a while ago — at least five years ago, maybe not that long ago — about the power of God in India and how it looks different. Do you remember that? You were talking about how India already has so much with all the different religions that they are used to seeing the dark side, and then when God comes in with the light, a miracle to them is very impactful.

Ron — It is, it is. Remember that in most of the countries where the Gospel is spreading the quickest and broadest, it’s in areas with witch doctors or supernatural beliefs, or where the past religion of the area impacts them. It’s easier for a person to accept the Lord or accept a miracle as valid in an area where it’s commonplace to see the dark side, the demonic miracle. That’s very common.

Joy — That’s the personality of the country, kind of what you were alluding to — how every country is different.

Ron — Exactly!

Joy — So if I think of Vietnam, it is incredibly diverse with religion and animism, and the kind of things that they would worship and might see.

Ron — Yeah, and Hinduism as well. Hinduism is a religion that revolves around the gods. They will put up altars and pray to the gods, much like in many parts of Africa. Vietnam, as you just spoke about, has similar practices. I’ll give you a bit of background on this. A missionary friend of mine, very famous during the Vietnam War, once took me to meet one of the leaders there who had come through the Vietnam War. He had been in prison for eight years after the war. He was a lieutenant during the war, wounded, and afterward, he became one of the greatest church leaders in Vietnam. This friend of mine told me a story and then said, ​“I’m going to ask John, let’s see what he says.” So here it came out, and they both agreed that before the Vietnam War, missionaries were active, and there were a small number of miracles and supernatural events, but it was a more conservative situation. Then, when the war started, everyone got scared. They prayed for God to supply them because there was a shortage of food, and that increased the frequency of miracles during the war. After Vietnam fell in 1975 and communism took over, the church was massively persecuted. We’re talking about half of the pastors being killed, and many Christian villages were wiped out.

Joy — Were they kicked out of the country?

Ron — People weren’t kicked out; they ran out. They got on boats and tried to flee to various places in the world, primarily Canada and the United States, through refugee camps in Hong Kong and other areas. The communist forces declared war on Christianity, saying there was no God and they were going to force that belief. From 1975 to the mid-80s, darkness seemed to rule. Then, out of nowhere, people started crying out to God, accepting the Lord, and gaining courage to pray. That’s when miracles started to happen! One example I’ll never forget is when they were so hungry, they had a pot with some vegetables, and all of a sudden, meat miraculously appeared in the pot. These types of supernatural events started happening. It wasn’t just in one place, it was everywhere. This opened the door to supernatural healings and everything broke loose. From that day forward, we heard the message from God: ​“The communists say I don’t exist, but I’m going to show you that I do!” Through the supernatural, God revealed Himself. Now, the church in Vietnam is built on the supernatural manifestation of God’s presence, ability, and love. This is what’s happening in Southeast Asia right now — God is revealing His presence through the supernatural, and that’s so important.

Joy — That’s incredible.

Ron — Ethiopia, let’s talk about that for a second. There’s no other place in the world where they have this many dreams and visions as they do in Ethiopia. I’ve never even heard of anything like it. All the textbooks don’t even discuss this kind of stuff. It’s common for leaders of other religions to have a dream or vision that opens their minds to the Gospel. So, when the evangelist comes the next day and preaches the Gospel, the leader of that religion will say, ​“I had a dream or a vision last night. God appeared to me, and now I’m listening, I’m believing!” And then the whole village comes to the Lord. It’s incredible! And it’s not a one-off thing — this happens thousands of times in Ethiopia. Many similar things happen in other parts of the Middle East. I would say, if there’s an area of the world that probably doesn’t see as many miraculous, supernatural occurrences right now, it would be Israel. Surprisingly, we don’t get many reports from there. Periodically, yes, but it’s not at that point yet. During the wars, like in ​’67, ​’73, and ​’48, we heard many more supernatural occurrences, like how people were saved or how things happened. It’s different.

Ron — In China, the biggest church in the world by far, they pray all the time. God just heals quietly. They pray, and God heals; nobody talks about it, it just happens. I’ve known this for so long, and they just take it as normal. We take it as supernaturally abnormal, but in China, it’s like, ​“We didn’t have enough to eat, so we prayed, and somebody brought food to our door.”

Charis — In a lot of countries, there are villages that don’t have access to medical facilities or doctors, so praying and depending on the Lord for healing is what they have. It’s just normal because it’s all they’ve got.

Ron — Exactly. Well, I’ve told you stories, Joy, about this, and we’ve shared them on other broadcasts. I’ve been in the middle of the Amazon River when babies have been healed. A group of people were holding a baby up in the air, praying for God to heal it, and I watched it with my own eyes. I’ve seen the same thing happen in a tribal village in Vietnam. I’ve witnessed these things — maybe not that many, but enough to know the reports are true and honest. And they’re varied; that’s the big thing to remember. God doesn’t have just one flavor of supernatural miracle. There are many, according to the needs of the people. That’s vital to remember, because we can be so immature in the Western world when it comes to the supernatural. Everything here is so natural, so when a legitimate miracle happens, we don’t know how to handle it.

Joy — Right, probably why we don’t see as many because it can become superficial very quickly.

Ron — Exactly. Supernatural events confirm people’s faith and open the door to hearing the Gospel. Here, it becomes something strange.

Joy — Almost like a circus.

Ron — It does have that circus atmosphere, and maybe that’s why we don’t see as many. Now, some people listening to this may go to a congregation where they believe they see miracles every week. That’s good. But generally speaking, within the church in North America, it’s not common.

Joy — And again, the miracles you’re talking about, the ones you’re seeing and that our partners are seeing, are bringing multitudes to the Lord. There’s a clear purpose to these supernatural elements. And, you know, everyone listening, I know Ron at Empower and Charis, we are very cautious when telling miracles because we know they exist, they’re real, and they’re vetted. The miracles you hear come from a trusted source. You shared a story on our website about one in Myanmar involving fireballs turning into flowers. It’s such a great story, and if you haven’t listened to it, you need to go find it! And you just mentioned that the supernatural is so tied to what’s happening in those moments.

Ron — Yeah, and also, Joy, the Myanmar story with the Buddhist monk who accepted the Lord. He did 3,000 squats, and that was supernatural strength. He was up on a table, and they wanted him to fall off and break his neck, but he didn’t. God gave him the strength to do 3,000 squats. It was amazing! That was like a Samson miracle. Remember Samson in the Old Testament? The supernatural is all throughout the Bible, it’s all throughout the New Testament. And what bothers me is that some Christian teachers over here deny the existence of supernatural miracles today, claiming they ended with the printing of the Bible or with the Apostles. Folks, I’ll go on record here: that’s just not true. If you traveled to the spiritual hotspots around the world like I do, you’d see that the supernatural is as real today as it was in Jesus’ day — and before! The Old Testament is filled with miracles! It just happens all the time — Elijah, Samson, Moses. When was the last time you saw a burning bush? That’s a supernatural event! What about the tablets of stone with the Ten Commandments being carved by God? That’s a little bit supernatural.

Joy — The handwriting on the wall…

Ron — Exactly! It’s all there. I could go on, but people can read their Bible. It has never stopped.

Joy — Well, I’d say you’ve confidently expressed that miracles and the supernatural definitely exist. And you know, on our website again, we have so many stories that we’ve recorded that address this topic of the supernatural.

Ron — Before we conclude, I want to pass the mic to Charis. While I often bring up this topic, Charis has been involved for decades and has witnessed and heard reports from pastors all over the world. I’m not the only one who believes in this, right, Charis?

Charis — Absolutely not. It doesn’t matter which country you’re in. Regarding the concern Joy mentioned about it being a circus, when we speak to pastors, it’s not about personal pride or boasting. It’s about sharing what God is doing through them. Many times, we have to coax the stories out of them because these miracles have become a normal part of their lives. They give all glory to the Lord.

Ron — Exactly! You reminded me of something when you said that. There’s no pride in these miracles. We have to ask them and draw out the stories because they don’t want to appear prideful. But I remember being in India once, sitting with pastors who casually discussed miracles. When I asked them about a specific miracle, they acted like it was just a normal occurrence, as if saying, ​“Don’t you have these too?” It was so common within the Gospel and the body of Christ. That’s why I can say with certainty that no matter where you go, there will be different types of miracles.

Joy — It will be fascinating to see what miracles come out of the El Salvador prisons, won’t it?

Ron — Oh, absolutely!

Joy — There’s so much to look forward to.

Ron — That’s right, Joy!